Do any of you still respect Shaq??? - CBSSports.com Message Boards

Do any of you still respect Shaq??? -
VicDaRuler Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:Mar 15, 2007
	May 5, 2008 1:23 pm Score: 94
	*However, don't tell me I don't have the right to be labeled a Laker fan even though I have switched my opinion. I purchased* *Lakers* t-shirts, sweaters, jerseys, bobble-heads, posters, and various other collectibles. I watched the Lakers on TV every chance I got, attended multiple games when they played in Minnesota, cheered them on, defended the whole roster, and even cheered for Kobe. I have had Shaq and Kobe in Laker uniforms in my office. Just because I'm not a "lifetime Laker fan", does that mean I don't have the right to say I was at one point in time. Now the difference is, I still love Wade and the Heat. I have no hard feelings for the Orlando Magic. However, Kobe specifically pushed me away. I think he has piss-poor character. We can debate, if you want, on who is worse between Shaq and Kobe, but during the last decade I feel Shaq has displayed better character overall, even though they have both had their..."brain fart" moments?? You dont have the right to be labeled a Laker fan, because in sports there is no such thing as a former fan, its either you are or you're not. However I do agree that you are an NBA fan and a Shaq fan, but please dont claim to be a Magic/Lakers/Heat/Suns fan because as far as sports is concerned this would fall under the category of being a bandwagoner. You are on Shaq's bandwagon and you have followed him throughout and your loyalty is with him not the teams he has been on or is currently on, what happens when Shaq decides to jump ship again and becomes a S.A Spur or something, are you then going to say that you are a Spurs fan? And just because you purchased Lakers merchandise and caught a few games when Shaq was around doesnt make you a Laker fan. Its about loyalty and your loyalty no longer lies with the Lakers. Loyalty comes from the heart and the passion, respect and appreciation you have for something, while by no means I'm questioning yours because as far as those aspects are concerned I belive you entail all of that for Shaq, not for the Lakers. Just a word of advise when you claim to be a former fan of a team, you are doing an injustice to the current loyal fans of that team. I welcome anyone that wants to jump on our bandwagon, but you better make sure you stay on this bandwagon no matter what, because the second you jump off, you are not welcomed back. Call it like it is, you are a Shaq fan and their is nothing wrong with that, I am also a Kobe fan, but if the Lakers and Kobe decide to go their seperate ways, I will still be a Kobe fan but my loyalties will always lie with the Lakers, you wont ever see me root for the team that Kobe would go to, I will not jump ship and if this ship goes down then I will go down with it. I say this with alot of pride and passion, I have always been a Laker fan, always will be, through the good, bad, the ugly, no matter if my team is in the right or the wrong, my team is my team and will forever be my team. GO LAKERS! Sorry Bbowsh, you seem like a stand up dude but I gotta rip you a new one on this one.
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Do any of you still respect Shaq??? -
Bbowsh54 Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 2, 2006
	May 5, 2008 5:40 pm Score: 95
	"*but please dont claim to be a Magic/Lakers/Heat/Suns fan because as far as sports is concerned this would fall under the category of being a bandwagoner. "* A bandwagoner??? No sir, Mr. VicDaRuler, not me... You see, a 'bandwagoner' is someone who jumps from team to team WITH NO LOYALTIES, simply because other teams have the mass appeal of winning or success. I do not bounce around from team to team because they have suddenly started to win or have gained something positive that appeals to all the other 'bandwagoners' out there... I have a loyalty and a constant in who I cheer for. Like I said in my last message, you caught me... I am a Shaquille O'Neal fan. More important than that, I am an NBA fan. I participate in as many NBA Fantasy leagues and contests, and even with my favorite team eliminated, I am going to continue watching the Playoffs. "*And just because you purchased Lakers merchandise and caught a few games when Shaq was around doesnt make you a Laker fan."* It was much more than that, sir. Purchased some merchandise and caught a few games?? At the time, one of my dream vacations would have been to catch a Playoff game at the Staples Center. We're talking, BEFORE the three title runs. I was cheering for the Lakers the moment the trade occurred with Orlando. Even though the reason for cheering for LA was rooted by O'Neal, I cheered for the entire team and memorized everything about each member of the roster. Had Shaq remained in LA and retired a Laker, I would probably remain loyal to the Lakers for life. The definition of a fan: an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc. I can guarantee (even though you will say I'm not devoted anymore) that I enthusiastically followed, admired, and cheered for the entire Laker franchise. Had you met me during the extent of O'Neal's tenure with LA, you would have not known a difference between us because I was just as passionate about the entire Laker roster and its pastime as you are now. Right now, I am a Phoenix Suns fans, whether they start the season on a twenty-game losing streak or not. Now, I have not yet decided where my loyalties will lie when Shaq retires. You have made it evident I am not welcome to cheer for your Lakers, fair enough. Don't explain to me what it means to be a lifetime fan of a single team. I tried to explain to you with my last post, I am the most loyal Miami Dolphin fan you will ever meet, regardless of who is on the roster. I bleed teal and orange, and will never cheer for another NFL team over my Dolphins. In the NBA, I have had a weird situation in following my favorite player around because he generated my passion for the game back in Orlando. I don't need a lecture on YOUR definition of a fan, because I stuck with each of O'Neal's teams through good, bad, and ugly. "Bbowsh, please do consider coming back to this thread to defend yourself and stick around. I think you're a stand-up guy, but Vic is totally correct - it's a bit of an insult to dyed-in-the-wool Laker fans who bleed purple & gold to say you're a Laker fan (who quit on the team because you thought Kobe was a man of "piss-poor" character, of all things!). I think you probably meant to say that you were a "one-time" or "former" Laker fan." I did say "former Laker fan"... Maybe not at every instance of my explanation, but originally that is what I labeled myself. I don't mean to insult the lifetime Laker fans. If you bleed purple and gold, good for you, I'm not here to hate! I'm an odd class of fan, but I don't feel I deserved to be lectured or ragged on for my current situation or beliefs on what it means to be a fan. In regards to the NFL, I'm just like you Vic and Jefe. With the NBA, I don't want to look at it as jumping ship... I was simply traded. You may not agree with that, but when I come back to a class or group of individuals such as yourselves, realize I would have been right there with you defending EVERYTHING about the Los Angeles Laker organization if O'Neal wasn't traded. Please don't resent me or hate me because I would rather have the Suns beat your Lakers at this time, I still respect everything the Lakers organization did for Shaq. "But let's be clear about two things; 1. you are not a Laker fan, and" No, I am not anymore... At one point in time, I feel I was entitled to be labeled a Laker fan. "2. you sip the Kobe hatorade" No... You see jefe, I do not HATE Kobe Bryant. That is not the image I want to display. It just seems like that to you, as a Laker fan, because when speaking with me I'm generally on the opposite side of the fence. However, I feel Kobe is one of the top five players in the league, and I respect how he has appeared to mature this season. I do not wish harm or anything negative to come to Kobe Bryant, but I do believe he is very selfish and I dislike his character. You feel Shaq is selfish, and that is fine... We can agree to disagree, but Kobe's actions and words over the past few years have really pushed me away. I still love Dywane Wade. I'm not here to hate or hold a grudge against Shaq's former teammate just because he's getting more success or has been labeled "The Man" over O'Neal. You love Kobe, and I respect that, but don't think he has earned much of the praise and worship he appears to be receiving these days. I could definitely put up an argument LeBron James is a more complete player, even though I say Kobe is one of the top five in the league. I don't want to be labeled a hater, which is why I don't toss out my opinions as facts and I'm open to debating any topic. I sure hope I am a stand-up guy. I'm not here to be a thorn in your side. Now you have me pondering what I'm going to do when Shaq retires. I still love Wade, should I return to being a Heat fan for the rest of my life? I love Nash, but his time is nearing, and Amare is still amazing... Maybe I'll remain a Suns fan? I don't know yet. I'll still love the NBA and be here to talk about anything you guys want. Alright, I'll listen to any criticisms you have for me Vic.... Sorry for any typos, I'm not proof-reading this one again. Take care everyone!
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Do any of you still respect Shaq??? -
jefe101 Reputation:98 Level:Superstar Since:Feb 22, 2008
	May 5, 2008 6:25 pm Score: 94
	Well, Bbowsh, that's quite an admission there. You're an interesting case - a fervent NBA fan whose loyalty seems to be principally driven and controlled by one man... the self-proclaimed Shaq-tus... interesting. I really don't know quite what to make of it...let's just leave it at, *"to each, his own."* Who am I to judge? Nobody. No... You see jefe, I do not HATE Kobe Bryant. That is not the image I want to display... I feel Kobe is one of the top five players in the league, and I respect how he has appeared to mature this season... but I do believe he is very selfish and I dislike his character... Kobe's actions and words over the past few years have really pushed me away... but [ I ] don't think he has earned much of the praise and worship he appears to be receiving these days... I could definitely put up an argument LeBron James is a more complete player, even though I say Kobe is one of the top five in the league. I don't want to be labeled a hater... (please excuse my taking some of your quotes here slightly out of context...) Bbowsh, forgive me if I'm coming off as antagonistic but it seems to be that, whether you're aware of it or not, you are even more slippery than the classic Kobe hater - you are a surreptitously pathological Kobe hater! While it's very nice that you can acknowledge Kobe as being a top 5 player, it's interesting is that you can also - in the same breath - call him selfish while also claiming to not understand why he has earned the praise and worship that has been lavished upon him. What's not to understand? Does sometimes brutal honesty turn you off? Is self-sacrifice a quality that you cannot appreciate? Does an almost singular desire to win and be the best player you can possibly be make you uncomfortable? Does his almost obsessive work ethic run contrary to what you look for in an athlete? Is his solitary goal to do everything in his power to make his team and his situation better something that does not sit well with you? Does his unique ability to imbue his (good) teammates with confidence and a winning mentality, whether he's on the floor with them or not, threaten you in some way? I understand that the guy may not be a saint - but, frankly, saintliness is *not* a quality that I would consider to be a prerequisite for my MVP.
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Do any of you still respect Shaq??? -
Bbowsh54 Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 2, 2006
	May 5, 2008 7:29 pm Score: 92
	Jefe, First off, how have you developed such an outstanding vocabulary? Were you a journalism or English major? Man, I use to be quite a writer, but as an Engineer I rarely get practice other than on message boards! You have busted out some great words on these boards, and I struggle to use such a vocabulary at a casual pace.... Just a compliment, it makes me miss serious writing. "Bbowsh, forgive me if I'm coming off as antagonistic" You're excused. We've established you're not a "punk hater" like some of the clowns we run into on these boards. "you are a surreptitously pathological Kobe hater!" I am proud to say, I caught you make a typo! It is surreptitiously. What amazes me, is you had the confidence to try that word without a spell-check, so I'm just kidding about catching your typo. However, I AM NOT A HATER. A hater is characterized as to have 'intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility'. I do not dislike Kobe as a whole, I simply dislike the character he displayed during his Colorado issue until now. He is more than confident and competitive, he is flat out arrogant and selfish. There was a much more professional way to handle things this past off-season, but as shown on the Steve A. Smith show, he has his own way to handle things. If Kobe weren't involved in so much controversy, I wouldn't give him a second thought. I do not wish any harm to come his way, I'm not hostile against him, I accept he provides a valuable presence in the NBA, but when discussing where he stacks up against the best NBA players of all time or comparing him with Shaq, I'll jump right in the conversation. You have openly admitted you LOATHE Shaq, my favorite player, but I still enjoy chatting with you about anything. I do not LOATHE Bryant, but if I will certainly speak my mind about his flaws if a Shaq-hater wants to give him so much praise. I don't think Kobe is a great team leader, and I strongly question if it is true he'd rather win an NBA championship again or if he has achieved his primary goal of getting his first MVP award. No one knows but Kobe, congrats to him regardless. Thanks for calling me stealthy though, and great word! 'What's not to understand?" As a Laker fan, why do you respect/love the guy that was a fickle mess this off-season, wanting OUT of LA and going public before going to discuss it with the front office first? "Does sometimes brutal honesty turn you off?" No, otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you! "Is self-sacrifice a quality that you cannot appreciate? " No, I can appreciate it. Where was Kobe's self-sacrifice? Was threatening to leave the team sacrificing his reputation in your eyes, in which he made the Lakers better? You think that was his ultimate goal? Claim to want out of LA to make the Lakers better in the end? Self-Sacrifice: sacrifice of one's interests, desires, etc., as for duty or the good of another.... Interesting. "Does an almost singular desire to win and be the best player you can possibly be make you uncomfortable? " No sir... However, there's a level of class you could use in carrying yourself while striving for these goals... "Does his almost obsessive work ethic run contrary to what you look for in an athlete?" Not at all, sir. When did I criticize or question his work ethic? I did not. However, I am unfamiliar with his workout regimen, so explain to me how it is obsessive and how much of his talent comes from work ethic and how much is God-given ability? "Is his solitary goal to do everything in his power to make his team and his situation better something that does not sit well with you?" Nope. Once again, there are classy ways to go about improving your situation and team.... "Does his unique ability to imbue his (good) teammates with confidence and a winning mentality, whether he's on the floor with them or not, threaten you in some way?" No, sir. However, many NBA stars in this league have the ability inspire or infect their teammates with confidence and winning mentalities, so I would not call that unique to Kobe Bryant, not at all... "I understand that the guy may not be a saint - but, frankly, saintliness is not* a quality that I would consider to be a prerequisite for my MVP."* You are correct. However, leadership is a quality I would consider in selecting the MVP. Since we're on the subject, what all characteristics substantiate an MVP? Ability, Skills, Statistics, Team Success, Leadership, .... ???? You tell me. Wow, you really were an antagonist there... Good times we have rolling here... Jefe, always a pleasure.. Have a phenomenal day everybody!!!
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