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Yes, Hank: We Have our
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Yes, Hank: We Have our "Beckett"


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Yes, Hank: We Have our "Beckett"
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Reputation:92
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 21, 2008

May 8, 2008 8:41 pm
If Wang got more strikeouts, less ground outs, and less double plays, everyone would think of him as an ace. I can't see why you need 180 Ks in a season to be the ace of a pitching staff. Wang has gone 19-6 w/ a 3.63 ERA and 19-7 w/ a 3.71 ERA the past two seasons respectively, and his strikeout total has been rapidly increasing with each passing season. He already is an ace, and if he really is beginning to strike more people out, the ERA may sink to below 3.50 and people will REALLY start to think of him as an ace. He continues to improve.

Yes, Hank: We Have our "Beckett"
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Reputation:66
Level:Pro
Since:Sep 24, 2006

May 8, 2008 11:51 pm
Wang Should Be Considered as an Ace the day that he Win a game and give to the Yankees 10 SO. If he wants to be an Ace he have to develop his SO faction.

Yes, Hank: We Have our "Beckett"
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 1, 2007

May 9, 2008 12:45 pm

^Strikeouts should not determine an "ace."  That's just ridiculous.  I realize that's how most people equate it, but an intelligent fan of baseball should be objective about it. 

I will not discount stats completely, Wangs stats are great and mediocre when it matters.  The thing about the term "ace" is not so much how many wins a guy puts up or how good his ERA is or isn't.  The term "Ace" is used for the guys on the staff that has that "stuff".  Wang doesn't hav it period.  If your best pitcher is a sinker ball pitcher who doesn't have much of a fastball, forget it. 

During the regular season it doesn't matter, you throw 5 guys out there in a rotation, so it doesn't matter who the "Ace" is or if you have one. You just want 30 starts from 5 guys, preferably. When the playoffs come around and you go to a three man rotation (first round) do you want Wang out there for 2 starts vs. a Beckett, Halladay, Verlander, Sabathia?  The sinker baller will start hanging pitches in the second game because of the short rest, the guy with the "stuff" doesn't have as much of an issue because he will still have 95 mph fast ball and 75 mph breaking stuff.

Wiskysox, I know everyone's already been back and forth about your posts.  I actually didn't think you were offensive, and there's some correct info in what you say.  That said, I don't think it's fair to say that a sinkerball pitcher can't be an ace.  As someone already mentioned, look at Brandon Webb.  I don't think anyone would dispute that he's an ace. Wang's numbers speak for themselves.  Yes, he sucked in the playoffs last year, but no pitcher is infallible.  Yes, Beckett has been an ace in the playoffs, but even he's infallible with several bad outings during the years he's been considered an ace including this season. 

Where Wang's stuff is concerned, you're mistaken about the velocity of his fastball.  He can actually hit 95 mph with control and movement, not easy to do.  He hits 95 with his sinkerball too which is part of the reason why it's so hard to hit.  What's also amazing about Wang is how he's evolving.  He's smart enough to realize that even though his sinkerball is excellent, he's been pitching in the majors long enough for opposing batters to figure it out.  So, as someone already mentioned, he's brought back his nasty slider and improved upon his changeup.  The slider was actually one of his best pitches in the minors, but the Yanks had him stop using it because it was causing arm troubles.  Obviously not an issue anymore.  I would say part of being an ace is not being content with being great, but rather always looking for ways to improve.  This is a huge aspect of the competitive spirit that has been mentioned in reference to the definition of an ace.  Wang's got it. 

As for matching up against the other aces mentioned, I'd still throw him up there with any of them.  Again, I know he stunk it up in the playoffs last year, but facing elimination, I didn't disagree with Torre's decision to start him on 3 day's rest.  I will say if Andy Pettitte was available, I would've preferred him since he has become one of the best big game playoff pitchers ever.  It doesn't mean I don't trust Wang, Pettitte is just more of the proven commodity in the playoffs.  Wang doesn't have as big a sampling.  Out of those aces mentioned, well, Justin Verlander seems to have lost it this year, and C.C. Sabathia is on a roller coaster ride.  If you want to talk about matchups though, I'm reminded of the Sabathia vs. Wang game this season.  That was a day Sabathia was on his game, and he only made 1 mistake which was the solo homer to Melky.  Otherwise, they stood toe to toe, and Wang won.