Yes, Hank: We Have our "Beckett"

The Steinbrenner definition of "ace" apparently has more do with being wildly demonstrative on the field and in the dugout and being outspoken in the press.

Chien Min Wang's lack of English language skills is part of it, but if you've been close enough to the team this year to see the iron determination on this guy's face (who the heck called him "passionless?") and the way in which he's altered his pitch arsenal, well, he's been speaking volumes.

The Yankee tradition of leadership, reaching back to Lou Gehrig and continuing to the present with Derek Jeter has always had more to do with deeds than words.

Too bad that tradition does not extend to the owner's box.

Sox fan here just to offer a different view to this "Ace" thing.

I will not discount stats completely, Wangs stats are great and mediocre when it matters.  The thing about the term "ace" is not so much how many wins a guy puts up or how good his ERA is or isn't.  The term "Ace" is used for the guys on the staff that has that "stuff".  Wang doesn't hav it period.  If your best pitcher is a sinker ball pitcher who doesn't have much of a fastball, forget it. 

During the regular season it doesn't matter, you throw 5 guys out there in a rotation, so it doesn't matter who the "Ace" is or if you have one. You just want 30 starts from 5 guys, preferably. When the playoffs come around and you go to a three man rotation (first round) do you want Wang out there for 2 starts vs. a Beckett, Halladay, Verlander, Sabathia?  The sinker baller will start hanging pitches in the second game because of the short rest, the guy with the "stuff" doesn't have as much of an issue because he will still have 95 mph fast ball and 75 mph breaking stuff. 

So, Wang can have his 19+ regular season wins (I have him on my fantasy team (he was the 4th pitcher I selected in a 12 team league)), he is not an ACE.  If the Yankees are relying on him to be that guy, they will continue to not win Championships.

During the regular season it doesn't matter, you throw 5 guys out there in a rotation, so it doesn't matter who the "Ace" is or if you have one.

You throw 5 guys out there? Do you even watch baseball? Do you think there is no strategy to baseball? By that definition, Beckett, Halladay, Verlander and Sabathia aren't aces then either.

So, Wang can have his 19+ regular season wins, he is not an ACE. 

Are you kidding me? He has had 6 solid outings in 7 starts so far this year and he's NOT our ace?

The definition of an ace is a pitcher who is your go-to guy, the one who you know that when he is on the mound everything is going to be ok,  and who is clearly and definitively your #1 pitcher, and yes, Beckett, Halladay, Verlander and Sabathia ARE aces. They are definitive #1's. No one else on their teams are going to take their place as a #1 when they are healthy. Chien Ming Wang has by far become that for us, and he will be that for us for years to come.

When the playoffs come around and you go to a three man rotation (first round) do you want Wang out there for 2 starts vs. a Beckett, Halladay, Verlander, Sabathia? 

If you honestly think that 1 bad playoff series means he'll never be good in the playoffs, then you are out of your mind. I'll gladly let him lead us, he's a solid pitcher who gives us a great chance to win every time he takes the mound, how much more do you ask for?

There is plenty of strategy in baseball.  However, once your rotation is set, barring rain outs or injuries the rotation is not altered during the regular season with the exception of re-alligining it after the break and before post season.

I never once said that he wasn't your "Ace", that is your teams problem, is that he IS your "Ace".  I said that he was not AN "Ace".

Again, I never said that he wasn't a good pitcher.  I just don't classify him as an "Ace".  By the way, in this young season, look at who he has faced before you go making any judgements as to how many wins or what awards he is going to bring home.  Outside of Boston, which he had a briliant performance against and one Horrible, the only team with a winning record that he has beaten is Tampa Bay.

This is exactly why Yanks fans hate Boston. Wisky, are you a moron? I'll give you a million dollars if you can show me a rotation that had their rotation set on opening day and every starter pitched every game as expected.

Wang is a way better pitcher than Verlander by the way.

I know Beckett is good and very good in the playoffs but lets not forget he had an over 5 ERA 2 seasons ago. So you claim ERA is the telling stat and then you say Beckett is an ACE??? Do have any clue of what you are talking about?

Goat, I apologize for thinking that you were literate.

When I brought up rotation, I was stating that ideally that is what you want to see coming out of training camp.  At any one given time during the season you have 5 guys in a rotation but it doesn't matter who the ace of the staff is.  During a 3 game series in the middle of the season there are plenty of series where the teams "Ace" doesn't make an appearance, so what does it matter.  The term "Ace" only applies to the post season.

Where did I claim that ERA was the telling stat?  My first post stated that the term "Ace" is NOT so much about wins or ERA.  I also stated, preferably you would like to see 5 guys have 30 starts.  In 2004, The Sox 5 starters had 32,33,30,33,29....157 starts from 5 guys....pretty damn good, so where's that million dollars?

So braniac, do you have any clue what you are talking about or are you just reading into what you want.  This is what I hate about Yankee fans.  I didn't come on here bashing any of you guys or your players, I think Wang is great pitcher, just not an "Ace".  God forbid though, thats an insult only b/c he's the best you guys have. 

I agree that Wang is an ace. Rivera, Wang, and Matsui have been carrying the team this season.

To anyone who thinks a sinkerballer cannot be an ace, have you ever heard of Brandon Webb. Webb has been the best pitcher in baseball for the past 3 years. And he is a sinkerball pitcher.

Wang, has also started this season off so well because he has learned how to pitch a devasting slider. This year his strikeouts have gone up because he is able to switch up the sinker and the slider. He is truly developing into a True Ace.

I thought it was 162 game season not 157 so ill hold on to my million.

Josh Beckett- 3.75 career ERA, 15 game winner only 3 times in his career.

Justin Verlander- 3.99 career ERA, 17 and an 18 wins in first 2 seasons.

CC Sabathia- career 3.92 ERA, 15 game winner only 3 times in career.

Roy Halladay- 3.62, 4 time 15 game winner.

CHIEN MING WANG- 3.69 career ERA, 8 wins in 17 starts yr 1. 19 wins in 34 starts yr 2. 19 wins in 30 starts yr 3. On pace for 20 wins this season.

I'd say Wang stacks up their with the rest of them. If those 4 are "Aces" so is Wang.

Sox-

Here's where I disagree with you.  Up until last year, Wang was 1-1 with a 2.70 ERA is post season.  The one loss was because the team didn't score any runs that game.  He is very much an Ace and one that came in 2nd two years ago for the Cy Young award and one that if he keeps on the pace he is right now, will run away with it this year.