Why are the following players on this team..?

I just read that Ben Fransisco is not going to make the team because the Indians are using David Delucci and Jason Michaels as their third and fourth outfielders.  OK, I know we are paying them more money, but these guys have proven that they suck.  Please give Fransisco a chance.  GIve Trevor Crowe a chance.  Hell, sign Barry Bonds.  Dellucci and Michaels shouldnt even be in the majors.

Which brings me to Jamey Carroll and Casey Blake.  Carroll just stinks and Blake is so ordinary it is sickening that he lingers on year after year.  If we cant upgrade there do you really think Sabathia is gonna get the money he deserves?  I would find a way to use Cabrera/Peralta and Barfield and start trying to see if Marte can play.  If we dont do that soon, Marte will go to the Reds and hit .310 with 25 homers like Brandon Phillips. 

PLEASE GET RID OF THESE HORRIBLE JOURNEYMEN VETERANS THAT STINK.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post - Ben Francisco is outplaying David Dellucci and Jason Michaels in every aspect of the game in spring training this far -

I cringed everytime Dellucci came up to the plate last year with his sub.250 BA - (although it wasn't much with his injury) - this guy has been a bust and honestly, based on past history, does anyone really think this "journeyman" has untapped potential? 

Teams make misstakes all the time with veterans - it happens - cut the cord and let the future in Ben Francisco get his shot.

Andy Marte, out of options, will be gone by May.

I agree with you regarding the portion of your thread that talks about LF...if I were the Indians I would keep Fransisco, and give him the nod initially over Michaels.  Cut Delucci, as he will be a cancer if he is not in a starting role.  Michaels is a decent 4th OF, and can contribute in the 8th spot of their lineup every 4th or 5th day.

But Jamey Carroll was signed to be a utility IF and he did just that with Colorado in a very respectable way last year.  And I grow tired of reading the criticism of Casey Blake...I don't get what he has to do to prove to Cleveland fans that he is a solid contributor to their club?  He has played, and I'll undoubtedly bet he would do so again, several positions for the Tribe very well (2B, RF, 1B, 3B).  He hits with power, averaging over 20 HR's per year and drives in an average of 80 runs per year.  He hits for average, about .270 or so, and gets on base at a nice clip as well.  And  just check out how he works other teams' starters on pitch counts...I have covered that in my posts ad nauseum.  He is athletic, has above-average speed, and plays with passion and zeal without regard as to where or how often.  He is an outstanding clubhouse guy, and only this year has he gotten the payday he has played his whole career for...I just don't get it, I guess; but I'll tell you this-ask his manager what he thinks of him...he is a consummate professional who I pay my hard-earned to see, and he does not let me down.

Blake is no journeyman veteran...he is an Indian, and you should be lucky to have him.

Jamey Carroll has been below average at every level.  He's also like thirty two or so.  He's being paid too much for his role and I'm of the belief if that if all you are getting out of a guy is utility infielder you gotta have a farm hand that can handle that.  Obviously youre not going to put a young prospect that needs reps in that situation, but cmon.

As for Blake, I like him as a person and can see why a lot of fans would love that lunchpail mentality.  However, the playoffs demostrated he is an easy out when you have to have an out.  I think an awful lot of his productivity comes at garbage time and I am absolutely not impressed by him as a starter in the majors.  I would also hazard to guess that a lot of his twenty homers come against fourth and fifth starters, long releivers and lower quality players.  While you can mask Blake's deficiencies if are lineup was stronger, it is hard to do when you have no power from the corner outfielders.  I thought nowhere was he exposed more than in the Boston series, where we got to see what a real third baseman can do both in the field and at the plate--Mike Lowell did more in every game than Blake did in the whole series.  I hate to say it but, if Lowell signed a 12 million dollar contract, I wouldn't pay Blake 2 million--they ought to not even be in the same league.

Andypetro, it's not just his mentality, it's his contributions.  They are often overlooked by casual fans, and not readily understood, but teammates and coaches understand them!  When I mentioned working pitch counts, what does that mean to you?  Or, dare I say, ask Pronk or Victor what it meant to them last year?  And when I indicated his willingness to play anywhere, at any time, what does that mean to you?  If you aren't sure, aske Eric Wedge?  Because of his athleticism he can play several positions, and right now, it happens to be 3rd base.  Is he any "easy" out-no.  Did he have a rugged playoff series vs. my team, the Red Sox, yes...but look back to last year, towards the end of the year with the Tribe clinging to a 2-3 game lead.  Do you remember how many games Casey won for the Indians with walk-offs?  It was a couple or so, and one was against the Tigers, who he has been merciless on.  They weren't against 4th or 5th starters or mop-up men, they were against the best those teams could put out there to try and pull out the game.  Yes, Lowell outplayed him at the plate in the series, but what Indians hitter was "solid" vs. Boston besides Grady and Jhonny P?  Maybe another guy or two I have forgotten about, but Casey wasn't the only guy to struggle...especially when you look at the main guy in the middle of their lineup who struck out time after time.

Look, andypetro, I am not trying to be too contentious here but Blake is a guy almost any manager would LOVE to have on his roster.  He does so many things well that a lot of today's ballplayers just don't care to try to do well.  I think he would be best suited as a "supersub" for the Indians, playing 5 days a week in about 3-4 positions...he would allow the Tribe to carry an extra pitcher which would be very beneficial to any AL team...especially one that will face the vaunted Tiger lineup 19 times this year.

Dellucci is batting a solid .129 through March 17th this spring - Francisco?  .346

I will be very dissapointed to see Double D in the starting line-up opening day - I would rather see Jason Michaels than this loser.

All I'm saying is that if you expect to contend for world series, Casey Blake is a liability as a starter.  I looked through who he hit homers against last year and he did not fare well at all against elite pitchers albeit that class (elite pitchers) is becoming a thinner field and we've got two of them on our team.  Having said that I wouldn't mind him on the team if he didnt start or if we sign our top pitchers to long term deals, we can get away with a few more holes in the lineup.  Another solution would be to get a stud cleanup hitter playing in the corner outfield positions making it less necessary to need more production from the third base spot.

Unfortunately, with absolutely no offense at the corner outfield positions, with Hafner looking absolutely terrible when he slumps, and generally having no really really dangerous hitter, its hard for me to think we are okay with Blake at third.  There are definitely times last year when the offense was hapless and when we didnt get stops from Fausto and CC in the playoffs we got run down by the Redsox.

As for Jamey Carroll, I just have a philosophy that you should be able to find farm hands that are good enough fielders to play the utility role and save 1.4 million in the process.  This is especially pronounced due to not having CC signed long term.  I beleive Byrd gets 8 mill this year and Westbrook gets 11 mill.  Thats your third and fourth starters. With Carmona making the minimum.  I would much rather trim Carroll, Dellucci, Michaels, Blake and Byrd to keep CC.  Thats like 19 million on guys that are arguably no better than minor leaguers.  I can live with Fransisco in left and Marte at third or shift Cabrera/Peralta/Barfield if it means signing CC to a long term deal.  While this still leaves problems with productivity from the corner outfield it is at least stomcachable with CC/Fausto/Westbrook as your 1/2/3

I guess this is a case of we can agree to diagree...Casey Blake is the type of ballplayer, to me, that is essential for a young up-and-coming ballclub to have on their team.  He does so many things well, and I cannot understand how you can say that a guy who will hit .270, with 20 or so homers and around 80 RBI's while playing solid defense is a liability on their ballclub?  I can see your point totally regarding power from the corner IF positions, and in reading your post it seems that you don't feel the Tribe has enough.  I think that Garko and Blake are going to combine to go for 45 HR's, 180 RBI's with a .285 avg. while slugging around .525 or so...maybe not the top 5 duo in  the league, but definitely in the top 10, while not costing them anywhere near what other teams are paying for that kind of productivity.  And as a whole, their IF has top 5 power production when you add in Peralta, who will pop 25 +/- HRs  this year.

As far as signing CC, I agree that you need to trim some of those guys from the roster to save money...namely Byrd, Blake, Delucci and maybe Michaels.  You are going to lose Blake this year as his contract is a one-year deal, and IMO he is going to get a better, long-term (2-3 year) deal that Cleveland probably won't offer.  Of the 4 guys, he would be the one the Indians will miss..that being said, I can see Blake in a super-sub role if they could get a better replacement for him, but I would not feel comfortable this year with Cabrera and Barfield in the lineup at the same time.  That severely limits the power in their lineup to C, DH, CF and 3B (maybe RF), which is not enough in the AL Central-let alone the American League as a whole. 

Jamey Carroll is what he is...a utility player.  I don't think he is worth the money he got either.  I guess Shapiro thought they didn't have enough in the system to fill in? 

Well, we shall see in a week or so, won't we?

All I'm saying is that if you expect to contend for world series, Casey Blake is a liability as a starter.

Wasn't Casey Blake the starter last year when they were a game away from the World Series? I don't think he was the reason we lost. I'm much more concerned about the Michaels/Delucci platoon than Casey Blake's hard nosed play, .270 average and 20 HR's.

We were a game away from the world series, but say we had Lowell instead of Blake, we'd be Champs.  Say we had Ramirez instead of Guitierez, we'd be Champs.  And the thing is, we could have afforded that by trimming Kenny Lofton 6 million, Trot Nixon 4 million, Casey Blake 3 million, Delucci 3.5 and Michaels 2.5.  Now as Hafner, Sizemore, Martinez, Peralta are going to start getting raises and were going to need to do something about CC and Fausto, the window is closing on what we can afford.

To me, the productivity we get from Sizemore CF, Peralta SS and Martinez C is awesome.  Not many C, SS, CF are hitting 25 homers and batting around .300.  If Asdrubal Cabrera reaches his potential we have a 2b that is way above average for his position as well.  So in all the traditionally anemic positions we are way ahead of the curve.

The rest of the positions are a different story.  I am not overly impressed with Garko.  I think he will be a very average 1b for many years and that almost got Steve Garvey into the Hall of Fame, but playin in Cleveland that wont even get you a allstar game.  Hafner had a season where he looked elite, but if he doesnt get back there, he's an average strike out prone DH ala Steve Balboni.  Leaving 3b, rf, lf with a crew of .270, 15-20 homer guys is not acceptable under these circumstances.  You need someone hitting clean up that is a legitimate 50 homer threat if youre going to carry Blake, and our present corner OF.  If you lose CC, and you leave that lineup, you arent even a playoff team.

And thats the rub here.  With a real threat cleanup hitter, and reasonable seasons from CC, Fausto and Westbrook, I think we are World Series champs this year.  I'll bet our pitching ends up looking way better than the Yankees or Bosox.  But, if we get to the playoffs with a lineup that is average, Beckett and Wang and maybe Bonderman or other decent but not spectacular pitchers are going to shut us down and send us home.

a lot of fans would love that lunchpail mentality

well, from what I've seen on another thread on this board, you wouldn't want Meat&CheeseDicks' lunchpail.

They need to just cut David Dellucci.  He really has no prospects, except for injuries.  At times last year he sparked the team, but overall he was deadwood, and needs to be cut.  He may be a good guy, I don't know, but he is through.  It's even questionable if any team would put him on their roster.

If they're not going to pay or trade for a power hitter in LF, then put Ben Francisco out there.  There is no point in sticking with Looch.